it's different than the u.s. defaulting on the debt. you know, we saw that back in august, 2011, we saw the downgrade of the credit rating. just by having the threat of not approving the debt ceiling increase and the possibility of default. it comes around again at the end of february, beginning of march. it's a time when there's a deal. if the deal does not include the debt ceiling, more damaging effects on the confidence. >> here we go again. neil irwin, it's good. economic editor. three ways they can mess this thing up next year. thank you so much. we'll talk to you again soon. we are 20 minutes to the top of the hour now. there have been major setbacks in the deal talks. we are just getting this news, a major setback in negotiations over a fiscal cliff deal. senator reid, according to democratic sources they are in a worse place than they have been in quite some time. the big three weighs in next. new years clutter is no match for someone with big ideas. with a new project in mind, some how-to knowledge to give us an edge, and more